By makas_nc |

From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:42 AM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: The Visigoth Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup I)

Hello,

I would like to invite you to attend a lecture on Anthropological Genetic
Genealogy: The Visigoth Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup I).
If you would like to learn more about the mark this ancient civilization
made on the Iberian Peninsula then this presentation is for you. There will
be a presentation on the subject on July 22, through the University of New
Mexico Continuing Education program.

Here is a link to sign up for the presentation:

http://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=CourseSeries.CourseSerie…
stration
&CourseSeriesGroupId=76

Best Regards

Ángel de Cervantes
Project Administrator
New Mexico DNA Project
Iberian Peninsula DNA Project

From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 11:44 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: The Visigoth Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup I)

Hello,

I would like to invite you to attend a lecture on Anthropological Genetic
Genealogy: The Visigoth Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup I).
If you would like to learn more about the mark this ancient civilization
made on the Iberian Peninsula then this presentation is for you. There will
be a presentation on the subject on July 22, through the University of New
Mexico Continuing Education program.

Here is a link to sign up for the presentation:

http://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=CourseSeries.CourseSerie…
stration
&CourseSeriesGroupId=76

Best Regards

Ángel de Cervantes
Project Administrator
New Mexico DNA Project
Iberian Peninsula DNA Project

I have a question for this project's administrator. Were all Visigoths
haplogroup I?

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
Puentes
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 8:03 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; Ciudad_Juarez@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: The Visigoth Connection to New Mexican
Families (Haplogroup I)

From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 11:44 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: The Visigoth Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup I)

Hello,

I would like to invite you to attend a lecture on Anthropological Genetic
Genealogy: The Visigoth Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup I).
If you would like to learn more about the mark this ancient civilization
made on the Iberian Peninsula then this presentation is for you. There will
be a presentation on the subject on July 22, through the University of New
Mexico Continuing Education program.

Here is a link to sign up for the presentation:

http://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=CourseSeries.CourseSerie…
stration
&CourseSeriesGroupId=76

Best Regards

Ángel de Cervantes
Project Administrator
New Mexico DNA Project
Iberian Peninsula DNA Project

Barry Cunliffe, Peter Heather and Herwig Wolfram all agree that the "Visigoths" were a confederation of many tribes and nations with a Germanic ruling elite, they were not a homogeneous group. The nations that made up the "Visigothic" hordes at the time of the great migrations out of the Balkans were Alans, Sarmatians, Dacians and Thracians, Carpi and a Greek element as well as run away slaves of varying ethnicity. In essences, anyone who threw in their lot with them and was opposed to Roman rule was considered a "Visigoth".

The Germanic people who made up the Visigothic nation were the Tervingi and Greuthungi, and they were in the minority at the time these people entered Gaul and Iberia. The hordes were a heterogeneous nation of nations.

This study also seems to neglect the Germanic confederations who proceeded the Goths such as the Suevi and Vandals, the former seem a good candidate for this marker as well.

We are too quick to put a tribal label on DNA markers. Yes, the "I" marker is common to "Nordic"peoples, but it is also found in the Balkans ( I-M423). I-M26 is also found among the Basques, who never mingled with nor were conquered by the Visigoths.

I agree that tribal labels should not be placed on haplogroups since there
is no way to know for sure how and when they arrived in Iberia. It is nice
to read that there are others that understand this. Haplogroup I is
estimated to be about 25,000 years old which by far predates any of the
Germanic cultures. A person of that haplogroup could have made it into
Iberia any time in those past 25,000 years speaking any of many languages
and part of any of many cultures. Even many subclades, not only those of
Haplogroup I, transcend ethnic and language groups and territories labeled
as belonging only to a certain group. The advent of farming and the bronze
age brought about a massive change in Europe and it could have been then
that the haplogroup made it into Iberia.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 7:46 PM, wrote:

> Roger Collins, Peter Heather and Herwig Wolfram all agree that the
> "Visigoths" were a confederation of many tribes and nations with a Germanic
> ruling elite, they were not a homogeneous group. The nations that made up
> the "Visigothic" hordes at the time of the great migrations out of the
> Balkans were Alans, Sarmatians, Dacians and Thracians, Carpi and a Greek
> element as well as run away slaves of varying ethnicity. In essences,
> anyone who threw in their lot with them and was opposed to Roman rule was
> considered a "Visigoth".
>
> The Germanic people who made up the Visigothic nation were the Tervingi
> and Greuthungi, and they were in the minority at the time these people
> entered Gaul and Iberia. The hordes were a heterogeneous nation of nations.
>
> This study also seems to neglect the Germanic confederations who proceeded
> the Goths such as the Suevi and Vandals, the former seem a good candidate
> for this marker as well.
>
> We are too quick to put a tribal label on DNA markers. Yes, the "I" marker
> is common to "Nordic"peoples, but it is also found in the Balkans (
> I-M423). I-M26 is also found among the Basques, who never mingled with nor
> were conquered by the Visigoths. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
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>
> To post, send email to:
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>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
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>

There is new evidence that there was trade between Iberia, Sardinia,
Austria, and Scandinavia long before the Visigoths. Haplogroup I could have
entered Iberia during the Nordic Bronze Age which was c. 1700–500 BC.

*The first part of this research published previously proved without doubt
that the metals dated to the Nordic Bronze Age found in Sweden were not
smelted from the local copper ores. In this second part we present a
detailed interpretation of these analytical data with the aim to identify
the ore sources from which these metals originated. The interpretation of
lead isotope and chemical data of 71 Swedish Bronze Age metals is based on
the direct comparisons between the lead isotope data and geochemistry of
ore deposits that are known to have produced copper in the Bronze Age. The
presented interpretations of chemical and lead isotope analyses of Swedish
metals dated to the Nordic Bronze Age are surprising and bring some
information not known from previous work. Apart from a steady supply of
copper from the Alpine ores in the North Tyrol, the main sources of copper
seem to be ores from the Iberian Peninsula and Sardinia. Thus from the
results presented here a new complex picture emerges of possible
connectivities and flows in the Bronze Age between Scandinavia and Europe .*
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440313002689

History, Culture and General Discussion