By meef98367 |

Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?

57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999

Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?

Thanks in advance.

Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?

Gracias antemano,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

Hola Emilie,

Laguenses are those of us from Lagos de Moreno. The u is silent in
this case unlike güero which is pronounced like wero using English
sounds. Therefore pronounced la-gen-se with a g like lagos.

Saludos,
Armando

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
>
>
>
> Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
>
> 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
>
> Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  What is meant by that?  Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"?  Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
>
> Gracias antemano,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>

Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
velados por ser tiempo prohibido".

Emilie,
Tiempo prohibido would be during Lent where this was a sacred and holy time ,
marriages were typically not conducted during Lent in the Catholic Church.

________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 11:41:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
prohibido?

Hola Emilie,

Laguenses are those of us from Lagos de Moreno. The u is silent in
this case unlike güero which is pronounced like wero using English
sounds. Therefore pronounced la-gen-se with a g like lagos.

Saludos,
Armando

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
>
>
>
> Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
>
> 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo
>José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal.,
>Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
>
> Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
>velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain
>span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por
>ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
>
> Gracias antemano,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>

Thank you Armando and Alicia for your responses.

Alicia, is there another "tiempo prohibido" besides Lent? I looked at the date of the marriage and it says what looks to be contradictory---in the beginning it says "Casado y velado.....en Jerez el 16 de diciembre de 1739....." Then at the end it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Did the priest mean to say that they were only "casados" and not also "velados"? Is December a holy time for the whole month because of Christmas? I thought Christmastime in Mexico was Dec. 25 to Jan 6, no? The 12 days of Christmas?

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:13:39 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
>
> Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
> velados por ser tiempo prohibido".
>
>
>
> Emilie,
> Tiempo prohibido would be during Lent where this was a sacred and holy time ,
> marriages were typically not conducted during Lent in the Catholic Church.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Armando
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 11:41:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
> prohibido?
>
> Hola Emilie,
>
> Laguenses are those of us from Lagos de Moreno. The u is silent in
> this case unlike güero which is pronounced like wero using English
> sounds. Therefore pronounced la-gen-se with a g like lagos.
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
> >
> > 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo
> >José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal.,
> >Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
> >
> > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
> >velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain
> >span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por
> >ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
> >
> > Gracias antemano,
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Emilie,

Another time that could have been tiempo prohibido was during advent, the 4
weeks leading up to Christimas. They would most likely marry them privately but
not announce the wedding bans and of course this was all subject to the rules of
that particular era in the church. Things most likely changed from time to time.

Alicia,
San jose, Ca.

________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 2:23:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
prohibido?

Thank you Armando and Alicia for your responses.

Alicia, is there another "tiempo prohibido" besides Lent? I looked at the date
of the marriage and it says what looks to be contradictory---in the beginning it
says "Casado y velado.....en Jerez el 16 de diciembre de 1739....." Then at the
end it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Did the priest mean
to say that they were only "casados" and not also "velados"? Is December a holy
time for the whole month because of Christmas? I thought Christmastime in
Mexico was Dec. 25 to Jan 6, no? The 12 days of Christmas?

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:13:39 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
>prohibido?
>
>
> Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
> velados por ser tiempo prohibido".
>
>
>
> Emilie,
> Tiempo prohibido would be during Lent where this was a sacred and holy time ,
> marriages were typically not conducted during Lent in the Catholic Church.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Armando
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 11:41:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
> prohibido?
>
> Hola Emilie,
>
> Laguenses are those of us from Lagos de Moreno. The u is silent in
> this case unlike güero which is pronounced like wero using English
> sounds. Therefore pronounced la-gen-se with a g like lagos.
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
> >
> > 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense
>Mateo
>
> >José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal.,
> >Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes
1999
> >
> > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
> >velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain

> >span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por

> >ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
> >
> > Gracias antemano,
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Thank you so much Alicia. My husband just told me that back in those days, the Church was the State and had laws that covered all activities. The Revolution and the Cristero wars changed all that.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:30:42 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
> Emilie,
>
> Another time that could have been tiempo prohibido was during advent, the 4
> weeks leading up to Christimas. They would most likely marry them privately but
> not announce the wedding bans and of course this was all subject to the rules of
> that particular era in the church. Things most likely changed from time to time.
>
> Alicia,
> San jose, Ca.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Emilie Garcia
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 2:23:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
> prohibido?
>
>
> Thank you Armando and Alicia for your responses.
>
> Alicia, is there another "tiempo prohibido" besides Lent? I looked at the date
> of the marriage and it says what looks to be contradictory---in the beginning it
> says "Casado y velado.....en Jerez el 16 de diciembre de 1739....." Then at the
> end it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Did the priest mean
> to say that they were only "casados" and not also "velados"? Is December a holy
> time for the whole month because of Christmas? I thought Christmastime in
> Mexico was Dec. 25 to Jan 6, no? The 12 days of Christmas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:13:39 -0700
> > From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
> >prohibido?
> >
> >
> > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
> > velados por ser tiempo prohibido".
> >
> >
> >
> > Emilie,
> > Tiempo prohibido would be during Lent where this was a sacred and holy time ,
> > marriages were typically not conducted during Lent in the Catholic Church.
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Armando
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 11:41:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
> > prohibido?
> >
> > Hola Emilie,
> >
> > Laguenses are those of us from Lagos de Moreno. The u is silent in
> > this case unlike güero which is pronounced like wero using English
> > sounds. Therefore pronounced la-gen-se with a g like lagos.
> >
> > Saludos,
> > Armando
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Emilie Garcia
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
> > >
> > > 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense
> >Mateo
> >
> > >José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal.,
> > >Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes
> 1999
> > >
> > > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
> > >velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain
>
> > >span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por
>
> > >ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
> > >
> > > Gracias antemano,
> > >
> > > Emilie
> > > Port Orchard, WA
> > >
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

The marriage date was 1739, December 16, in Jerez, time which Alicia told me was Advent (before Christmas) where they would not have had a "velado" but they were "casados".

Emilei
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: zapvive1@msn.com
> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:41:04 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Prohibido
>
> Deedra Corona
> Was it during the time of "Las Guerra de los Cristeros?" What was the date?

R.A.Ricci (not verified)

14 years 7 months ago

Permalink

Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
RA Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Emilie Garcia
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?

Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?

57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999

Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?

Thanks in advance.

Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?

Gracias antemano,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

The answer is an absolute and astounding NO. Laguense is reserved for
people from Lagos de Moreno ONLY.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, wrote:
> Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
> RA Ricci
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emilie Garcia
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
> To:
> Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
>
>
>
> Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
>
> 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
>
> Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  What is meant by that?  Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"?  Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
>
> Gracias antemano,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>

I knew that it was one of the two but did not remember which of the two towns.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Armando
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 19:18:26
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation,
please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?

The answer is an absolute and astounding NO. Laguense is reserved for
people from Lagos de Moreno ONLY.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, wrote:
> Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
> RA Ricci
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emilie Garcia
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
> To:
> Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
>
>
>
> Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
>
> 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
>
> Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  What is meant by that?  Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"?  Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
>
> Gracias antemano,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>

Understood. By the way, the people of San Juan de los Lagos are
referred to as San Juanenses.

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:49 PM, wrote:
> I knew that it was one of the two but did not remember which of the two towns.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Armando
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 19:18:26
> To:
> Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation,
>        please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
> The answer is an absolute and astounding NO. Laguense is reserved for
> people from Lagos de Moreno ONLY.
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM,   wrote:
>> Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
>> RA Ricci
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Emilie Garcia
>> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
>> To:
>> Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
>>
>> 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
>>
>> Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  What is meant by that?  Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"?  Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
>>
>> Gracias antemano,
>>
>> Emilie
>> Port Orchard, WA
>>
>>

Armando,

The person that is referred to as "laguense" in some articles I found online is Matheo de Arteaga, a then well-known Doctor of Theology and Canonical law and a Jesuit priest at the time in Aguascalientes which was Zacatecas I believe. I just found his baptism record from 1739 and it says he was born in Santa Maria de los Lagos. He was born in the same place where some of my ancestors came from, Cienega de Mata. Matheo's maternal grandparents owned that place, originally a hacienda? I thought it was in Jalisco, but the boundaries of the states have changed so much over the years and I am really confused now, especially with all the places that use "Lagos" in their name.

Emilie

> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 19:18:26 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
> The answer is an absolute and astounding NO. Laguense is reserved for
> people from Lagos de Moreno ONLY.
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, wrote:
> > Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
> > RA Ricci
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Emilie Garcia
> > Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
> > To:
> > Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
> >
> > 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
> >
> > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
> >
> > Gracias antemano,
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Emilie,

Santa María de los Lagos changed it's name on April 9 1829 to Lagos de
Moreno in order to honor the insurgent Pedro Moreno González who
helped fight for independance from Spain. He was an hacendado and a
descendant of Diego Moreno de Ortega Villegas and Leonarda de Araujo y
Guerrero. San Juan de Los Lagos is named after Lagos de Moreno which
is where most of its settlers came from and is just west from the
Lagos. Ciénega de Mata is now within the municipal district of Lagos
de Moreno but at one time was one of the largest landholdings in
México covering multiple states and was owned by the RIncón-Gallardo
family. I also share ancestors, like many of us, with the
Rincón-Gallardo family. I had never heard of Mateo José de Arteaga y
Rincón Gallardo until now.

Armando

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
>
> Armando,
>
> The person that is referred to as "laguense" in some articles I found online  is Matheo de Arteaga, a then well-known  Doctor of Theology and Canonical law and a Jesuit priest at the time in Aguascalientes which was Zacatecas I believe.  I just found his baptism record from 1739 and it says he was born in Santa Maria de los Lagos.  He was born in the same place where some of my ancestors came from, Cienega de Mata.  Matheo's maternal grandparents owned that place, originally a hacienda?  I thought it was in Jalisco, but the boundaries of the states have changed so much over the years  and I am really confused now, especially with all the places that use "Lagos" in their name.
>
> Emilie
>
>> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 19:18:26 -0500
>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>>
>> The answer is an absolute and astounding NO. Laguense is reserved for
>> people from Lagos de Moreno ONLY.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, wrote:
>> > Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
>> > RA Ricci
>> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Emilie Garcia
>> > Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
>> > To:
>> > Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
>> >
>> > 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
>> >
>> > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  What is meant by that?  Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance.
>> >
>> > Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"?  Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
>> >
>> > Gracias antemano,
>> >
>> > Emilie
>> > Port Orchard, WA
>> >
>> >
>> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>> >
>> > To post, send email to:
>> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>> >
>> > To change your subscription, log on to:
>> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>> >
>> > To post, send email to:
>> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>> >
>> > To change your subscription, log on to:
>> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>> >

Armando,

Thank yoou so much for clarifying this business of all those "Lagos". My mother was an American Native and my father was from Zacatecas with only some of his ancestors having come from Cienega de Mata, so I am unfamiliar with Jalisco.

My husband's ancestors came from Encarnacion de Diaz, or were baptized there, but some of those records indicate they lived in a place called "Santa Maria" (no Lagos mentioned). They themselves (his grandfather and great-grandfather) always claimed they were born in Encarnacion. Others of his ancestors did come from San Juan de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Santa Barbara, San Matias, Colotlan, Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco, Mariquita, Canada de Agustin, Tlaltenango, and way, way back from Aguascalientes and Rincon de Romos.

Since my husband's ancestors immigrated to the States in the late 1800s, he was unaware, as I was, of the term "laguense". The majority of my husband's ancestors came from Lagos de Moreno, so I will now tell him that he is a "laguense", or at least his ancestors were.

If you Google "Matheo de Arteaga", in those exact terms with quotes, it will bring up two excellent articles about Matheo de Arteaga who was a very accomplished person, a Jesuit, of the mid 1700s in Aguascalientes and Jalisco.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 22:50:27 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
> Emilie,
>
> Santa María de los Lagos changed it's name on April 9 1829 to Lagos de
> Moreno in order to honor the insurgent Pedro Moreno González who
> helped fight for independance from Spain. He was an hacendado and a
> descendant of Diego Moreno de Ortega Villegas and Leonarda de Araujo y
> Guerrero. San Juan de Los Lagos is named after Lagos de Moreno which
> is where most of its settlers came from and is just west from the
> Lagos. Ciénega de Mata is now within the municipal district of Lagos
> de Moreno but at one time was one of the largest landholdings in
> México covering multiple states and was owned by the RIncón-Gallardo
> family. I also share ancestors, like many of us, with the
> Rincón-Gallardo family. I had never heard of Mateo José de Arteaga y
> Rincón Gallardo until now.
>
> Armando
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
> >
> > Armando,
> >
> > The person that is referred to as "laguense" in some articles I found online is Matheo de Arteaga, a then well-known Doctor of Theology and Canonical law and a Jesuit priest at the time in Aguascalientes which was Zacatecas I believe. I just found his baptism record from 1739 and it says he was born in Santa Maria de los Lagos. He was born in the same place where some of my ancestors came from, Cienega de Mata. Matheo's maternal grandparents owned that place, originally a hacienda? I thought it was in Jalisco, but the boundaries of the states have changed so much over the years and I am really confused now, especially with all the places that use "Lagos" in their name.
> >
> > Emilie
> >
> >> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 19:18:26 -0500
> >> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> >> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
> >>
> >> The answer is an absolute and astounding NO. Laguense is reserved for
> >> people from Lagos de Moreno ONLY.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, wrote:
> >> > Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
> >> > RA Ricci
> >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Emilie Garcia
> >> > Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
> >> > To:
> >> > Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
> >> >
> >> > 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
> >> >
> >> > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance.
> >> >
> >> > Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
> >> >
> >> > Gracias antemano,
> >> >
> >> > Emilie
> >> > Port Orchard, WA
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >> >
> >> > To post, send email to:
> >> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >> >
> >> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >> >
> >> > To post, send email to:
> >> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >> >
> >> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >> >
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

I am happy I was able to help. You might tell your husband it is also
a very rare term. Out of all the places in the world I believe Lagos
de Moreno is the only one that uses the term laguense, so you can tell
your husband he is special in this regard. Encarnación de Díaz is
close to Lagos and was founded 97 years after Lagos in 1760.
Aguascalientes was founded shortly after Lagos in 1575 and is only
about an hour away. Once I have a chance I'll read up on Matheo de
Arteaga.

Un saludo
Armando

On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
>
> Armando,
>
> Thank yoou so much for clarifying this business of all those "Lagos".  My mother was an American Native and my father was from Zacatecas with only some of his ancestors having come from Cienega de Mata, so I am unfamiliar with Jalisco.
>
> My husband's ancestors came from Encarnacion de Diaz, or were baptized there, but some of those records indicate they lived in a place called "Santa Maria" (no Lagos mentioned). They themselves (his grandfather and great-grandfather) always claimed they were born in Encarnacion.  Others of his ancestors did come from San Juan de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Santa Barbara, San Matias, Colotlan, Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco, Mariquita, Canada de Agustin, Tlaltenango, and way, way back from Aguascalientes and Rincon de Romos.
>
> Since my husband's ancestors immigrated to the States in the late 1800s, he was unaware, as I was, of the term "laguense".  The majority of my husband's ancestors came from Lagos de Moreno, so I will now tell him that he is a "laguense", or at least his ancestors were.
>
> If you Google "Matheo de Arteaga", in those exact terms with quotes, it will bring up two excellent articles about Matheo de Arteaga who was a very accomplished person, a Jesuit, of the mid 1700s in Aguascalientes and Jalisco.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 22:50:27 -0500
>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>>
>> Emilie,
>>
>> Santa María de los Lagos changed it's name on April 9 1829 to Lagos de
>> Moreno in order to honor the insurgent Pedro Moreno González who
>> helped fight for independance from Spain. He was an hacendado and a
>> descendant of Diego Moreno de Ortega Villegas and Leonarda de Araujo y
>> Guerrero. San Juan de Los Lagos is named after Lagos de Moreno which
>> is where most of its settlers came from and is just west from the
>> Lagos. Ciénega de Mata is now within the municipal district of Lagos
>> de Moreno but at one time was one of the largest landholdings in
>> México covering multiple states and was owned by the RIncón-Gallardo
>> family. I also share ancestors, like many of us, with the
>> Rincón-Gallardo family. I had never heard of Mateo José de Arteaga y
>> Rincón Gallardo until now.
>>
>> Armando
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Emilie Garcia
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Armando,
>> >
>> > The person that is referred to as "laguense" in some articles I found online  is Matheo de Arteaga, a then well-known  Doctor of Theology and Canonical law and a Jesuit priest at the time in Aguascalientes which was Zacatecas I believe.  I just found his baptism record from 1739 and it says he was born in Santa Maria de los Lagos.  He was born in the same place where some of my ancestors came from, Cienega de Mata.  Matheo's maternal grandparents owned that place, originally a hacienda?  I thought it was in Jalisco, but the boundaries of the states have changed so much over the years  and I am really confused now, especially with all the places that use "Lagos" in their name.
>> >
>> > Emilie
>> >
>> >> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 19:18:26 -0500
>> >> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>> >> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>> >>
>> >> The answer is an absolute and astounding NO. Laguense is reserved for
>> >> people from Lagos de Moreno ONLY.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, wrote:
>> >> > Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
>> >> > RA Ricci
>> >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Emilie Garcia
>> >> > Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
>> >> > To:
>> >> > Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> >> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
>> >> >
>> >> > 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
>> >> >
>> >> > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  What is meant by that?  Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks in advance.
>> >> >
>> >> > Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"?  Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido".  Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
>> >> >
>> >> > Gracias antemano,
>> >> >
>> >> > Emilie
>> >> > Port Orchard, WA
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>> >> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>> >> >
>> >> > To post, send email to:
>> >> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>> >> >
>> >> > To change your subscription, log on to:
>> >> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>> >> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>> >> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>> >> >
>> >> > To post, send email to:
>> >> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>> >> >
>> >> > To change your subscription, log on to:
>> >> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>> >> >
>> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>> >>
>> >> To post, send email to:
>> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>> >>
>> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
>> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>> >
>> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>> >
>> > To post, send email to:
>> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>> >
>> > To change your subscription, log on to:
>> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>> >

I just found the baptism record for the person described as a "laguense". He was born in Santa Maria de Los Lagos, so I guess there were several communities that were "Lagos de" or "de los Lagos".

Emilie

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 23:57:27 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
> Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
> RA Ricci
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emilie Garcia
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
> To:
> Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
>
>
>
> Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
>
> 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
>
> Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
>
> Gracias antemano,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>

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